bill o'reilly will be here. i wonder if he'll spar with laura ingraham. she'll be here tomorrow. we hope you join us. >> eric: see you on "the five." >> steve: what time is that? >> eric: five. >> how many people are on it? >> eric: five. >> gretchen: have a great day. see you tomorrow bill: start of a whole new week. there is fallout over the attack in libya. there are increasing calls for a hearing and our u.n. ambassador susan rice to resign. the obama team dill giving conflicting accounts of the white house response. martha: i'm martha maccallum. the romney campaign is joining this growing chorus of lawmakers. senator john mccain saying the

administration's response was inept and ignorant and susan rice blaming it on a spontaneous protest was inexcusable. >> it's either willful ignorance or abysmal ignorance to think people come to spontaneous demonstrations with mortars and heavy weapons pant attack goes on for hours. bill: both sides are complaining. governor romney's team says the white house is still getting its story mixed up. >> reporter: democrats say republicans are politicizing the tragic attack that cost of life of four americans. the republicans say the white house is cover ugging up the details for political reasons. here is axlerod. >> the president called it an

act of terror the day after it happened. but when you are the responsible party, when you are the administration and you have a responsibility to act on what you know and what the intelligence community believed. >> reporter: actually it was several days after the benghazi attack before the white house called it terrorism and that came after the national terrorism chief called it aterror attack. >> i think now based on the recommendations of the intelligence community, they made the decision to conclude this was a terrorist attack. in the days afterwards that was not clear. >> reporter: bluff * called it preposterous. bill: there have been calls for susan rice's resignation. where does that stand today.

>> reporter: the president says rice has done extraordinary work at the united nations and he looks forward to her continuing it. he says it grew out of the trailer of the anti-muslim film. some republicans see a political motive for not scheduling a hearing. martha: governor romney issuing a hard-hitting opinion piece in the "wall street journal." he's blasting president obama on foreign policy and calling for the restoration of american influence in that region. he writes by failing to maintain an influence and stepping away from our allies, president obama has heightened the prospect of conflict and instability.

bill: the governor's running-mate echoing those sentiment. paul ryan telling chris wallace the handling of the attack in libya reflects only one part of a larger problem. >> the response was slow. it's inconsistent. the obama foreign policy is unraveling before our eyes on our tv screens. bill: governor romney will give a major foreign policy speech soon after the first debate ends. the first debate ends wednesday night, as you know. martha: marsha blackburn has also criticized the white house response. she'll join us on what she thinks should happen next. we are getting reports of another homicide bombing killing

14 people, two of them americans. the bomber drove into a nato patrol. doug mcelway joins us live. it was a couple weeks ago the u.s. suspended patrols with afghan soldiers because of these insider attacks. have these joint patrols resumed now? >> reporter: they have. they resumed last thursday and the insider attacks have also resumed. not only the attack you just mentioned but also the suicide bomber attack, homicide bomber attack. the motorcycle laden with explosives drove into that marketplace. critics say this attacks reflect an obama foreign policy that

refuses to acknowledge the reality on the ground. u.s. marines are tying tourniquets to their legs in hopes of surviving ied attacks before they go out on patrol. >> we are going to get after this. it reverit. it reverberates. we are willing to sacrifice a lot for this campaign but we are not willing to be murdered for it. >> reporter: the death toll reached 2,000 over the weekend. martha: what is the afghan point of view as far as we can glean about these insider attacks? >> reporter: critics say the obama administration has set a date for withdrawal extra.

>> why should the taliban take risks when they know we are leaving? it's more for the afghan army personnel who want to show their loyalty to taliban. >> reporter: there is fear among the afghan army that the taliban will seek retribution against anybody who has cooperated with the americans. bill: we are hearing president obama will move quickly to announce a new treasury secretary if reelected in november. the "wall street journal" says whoever that is will play a big role in congress over nearing the fiscal cliff. without a deal many economists predict another recession. stuart, good morning. what's the significance of this?

>> reporter: the president says we are headed in the right direction. the evidence suggests we are headed in the wrong direction. the word recession is more commonly used. the evidence is this. we know the economy is slowing dramatically. we know income is down. and we know that buying power is down. that's over the last 3 1/2 years and bringing us up to the current state. if we have a second term and the president raises taxes, keeps regulation in place and keeps running up the massive debt. that's where the word recession comes in. current policies have failed to continue them into next year would possibly mean a recession in the year 2013. very significant with five weeks to go to the election. bill: the gdp is 1.3 that's like belgium. why are stocks up, stuart? >> reporter: that's a very good question. normally when the market heads

south you -- normally when the economy heads south the market heads south. but ben bernanke is propping it up. martha: we have a jam packed show for you today. both candidates are hunkered down getting ready for wednesday night's debate in denver. new numbers show how many voters could still be persuaded. bill: disturbing details in fallout from operation fast & furious. new records of dozens of weapons linked to murders and weapo and cartel hitmen. now there are questions about the fate of attorney general eric holder in all of this. >> they don't see the victims. 60,000 people have been killed.

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child out of wedlock with the family housekeeper. >> i think it's the stupidest thing i have done in the whole relationship it was terrible. i inflicted tremendous pain and maria and unbelievable pain on the kids. i had to tell them that each about what has happened and how i have screwed up. >> how did that go? >> they cried. it takes you -- it tears your heart out when you have to tell them that. martha: that was something. the whole thing. quite interesting. the interview. it's timed to coincide with his new book. "total recall." my unbelievably true life story. it comes out today. bill: that was a remarkable interview. how he recalled and looked back

on that time. martha: interesting to say the least. bill: he's on "fox and friends" tomorrow morning. we we'll talk to the governor then. we are two days away from debate number one. a brand-new rasmussen poll shows many of you can still be dered uncommitted. you are open to changing your mind. what about this. good morning to both of you. rich, chris christie predicts a whole new race thursday morning. is it a game changer or not? >> we'll see. one thing i do think in this rasmussen poll goes to this, that people are more persuadable

and susceptible to argument and changing their minds than we think. the democratic convention moved the needle in this race because bill clinton went out for 45 minutes and made a case on substance largely against mitt romney and he made it. and romney's 47% remark moved the needle. there is a narrow lead for president obama. so romney needs to make the case affirmatively for his program and why it's better than the president's. this is not just a referendum. this was the romney theory going in. he needs to prove that he's a better choice for the next four years. >> people are still persuadable. 15% is a pretty big number. if you look at undecided voters in most polls it's around 6%.

but rich is right. people will pay attention to this and they will look for something maybe to make them change their minds for people who aren't completely thrilled about their choice which actually i think in both parties it's most people. most people aren't that excited about their choice. but it's mostly the independent voters they will have to focus on. bill: you make the case this debate is really for them. the persuadables. >> it's not just for them. it's for those in certain states. it's great that we can talk about the race, what's happening nationally. but what matters is what's happening in battle ground states. and it looks like the race is moving in obama's direction. bill: i want to take you both back to an event in 2008 that a lot of folks have forgotten about. i believe this is january during the primarily battle between

hillary clinton and boik. do you remember this exchange? >> when i was working on those streets watching those folks' jobs shift overseas you were a corporate lawyer work on walmart. >> i'm just reacting to the fact, yes, they did have ideas and they were bad yds ideas. bad for america and i was fighting against those ideas when you were practicing law and representing your contributor in his slum landlord business in chicago. bill: if you get an he change like that wednesday night, what's the likely impact on these uncommitted or spu -- thee

voters. >> both of these guys have been through an awful lot of debates in their careers. they will be well prepared. the one thing that has to be cause for optimism for republicans. usually an incumbent president comes out rusty. we saw that in 1984, reagan's first debate was a disaster. george w. bush's debate was a disaster. i don't think it will be a disaster. but you saw on the univision interview. when you are abe incumbent president you are not used to being challenged. bill: what do you think the impact of a potential exchange like we just watched will have on this 15% rasmussen is talking about? >> rich is right. it depends on what it is. there was another debate moment in 2008 that seemed to change the trajectory a little bit. remember when hillary was told people don't like her and she

said that hurts my feelings and it was kind of like funny, self-deprecating moment, and it seemed to move women voters in a way. you can't ever really know. there could just be some sort of moment that moves people in a certain direction, though. i think the bigger issue is mitt romney making people feel like i'm a goodall tern tough to obama. you are not that happy with him or you wouldn't be undecide or persuadable. but i'm safe. i'm somebody you can trust with the future. bill: the audience is enormous. 50 million americans will watch this. this is golden opportunity with a capital "g." rich, we'll see you in the hallway real soon. we are your headquarters for

wednesday night. pregame, post-game, full analysis. the following morning which will be interesting, too. it marinates and sets in a little bit. we'll have all that for you on wednesday morning as well. martha: i could watch those debates for hours. everybody looks younger then, too. california is making a controversial move set to hand out driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. we'll tell you what's going on there and what about the fallout. bill: there is a growing course of calls for susan rice to resign immediately. >> what happened initially was a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired in cairo as a consequence of the video. people gathered outside the embassy. then it grew very violent.

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bill: venezuela president hugo chavez telling venezuela state tv that if he were an american he would vote for barack obama. he called him a good guy. martha: thanks a lot. very helpful, chavez. there is a controversial new law signed into effect in california and it sparked a national debate it allows some illegal immigrants to get a driver's license in california. it's the state with the largest population of illegal immigrants with an estimated 2.8 million.

that's 24% of the pop laying of illegals in the country are living in california. so was this a good call by jerry brown? let's ask john fund. obviously this is part of president obama's new law which allows those under 16 who meet a number of criteria who came here under 16, i should say, to enjoy some of the benefits of citizenship and work. so say this is the safest way to go for those people to allow them to get a driver's license. >> let's thank governor brown for one small favor. there is one worse bill he did veto which would have prohibited state authorities from cooperating with the federal authorities in deporting someone. i think president obama's original action will go through the courts and long before any states should act on it we should see if it's viewed as

constitutional. martha: you are saying wait until it goes through the courts then proceed with this. >> what happens if the court say obama overstepped his authority? will we take back the driver's licenses? this is why we need voter i.d. at the polls. real voter i.d. at the polls that's just for citizens. once you have a driver's license everyone assumes around citizen and you can use it for a variety of purposes. martha: should we not have sympathy for people in this situation for people brought here under the age of 16. rco rubio had a similar plan and rubio was about to announce his plan on this. but it had very similar principles for florida. >> i can understand a state issuing a document saying this only useful for driving. this person has a valid work per polite. but an actual driver's license

that implies rights and responsibilities is a stretch too far. martha: what about the safety aspect of it. you have to go through procedures and pass some tests and it makes the roads safer essentially. >> being from california i wish that were so. something like 20% of our drivers on many california freeways already don't have a driver's license. either because they don't want to show proof of inn or for other reasons. so that's a much bigger proper prime minister in in theory i can understand the need for safety. but we have to take a comprehensive approach to this. >> are we going to see this in other states? >> we have seen states like utah and other states issue driver licenses to illegal aliens. but many of them stepped back like tennessee because they realize the i.d. can be misused. if you are going to have this. make sure it many something that clearly distinguishes the person from being a citizen. being a citizen carry as whole

set of rights and responsibility with it that are separate. martha: interesting idea. bill: john fund, california guy. i didn't know that. there is a whole lot more than reading, writing and arithmetic happening in one school. have you heard? that is an alleged murder for hire scheme that is caught on tape and much more on that in a live report. martha: shocking details in the operation fast & furious. it links more victims to the guns that got into mexico through that gun-running sting. >> they feel helpless. we interview one of them and they say who is going to pay for this. how we can carry on with such a thing that losing our sons. [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare?

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bill: we have a bombshell new development revealing dozen of weapons connected to the fast and furious gun-running operation. guns found at a 2010 murder scene can be traced back to the united states which shows the consequences of the botched operation go way beyond the death of brian terry. >> reporter: this is information thed a spin straition deprattly wanted and successfully kept secret for more than a year. the names and phase of the innocent people killed in mexico with guns sold and smuggled with u.s. help under fast and furio furious. >> reporter: a home covered in blood after gang members kill 16, emteenagers at a birthday party. guns used in the massacre traced to the u.s. operation fast and furious. >> they are waiting for an answer. they want to know what happened and why they didn't stop these

guns from leaving the united states and ending up in these crimes. >> reporter: spanish language television univision found there two dozen guns matched operation fast and furious. this woman lost two sons to fast and furious guns. >> they feel helpless. we interviewed one of them and they say who is going to pay for this? >> reporter: it could be the u.s. government should the family of brian terry prevail in their wrongful death claim. >> that will be an interestingment. >> reporter: the mexican government has remained silent. unwilling to criticize it

northern neighbor. >> they only want the benefits from the politics. >> reporter: the univision identified 60 additional weapons tied to fast and furious. but it's the victims at a birthday party that outrages critics. paul ryan joined 30 house members calling for attorney general eric holder's resignation. martha: should eric holder resign u.s. attorney general because of all of this? one official at justice resigned and another retired in the wake of this scandal. another 14 officials may face disciplinary actions because of operation fast & furious. jay sekulow from the center for law and justice has behind this

pursuit. for so long we heard about brian terry and we heard about the others in mexico who were also affected by operation fast & furious. now to hear these parents, to see the faces of these teenagers and to see the blood in the hallway on the ground and to know in some cases it has been traced back to these guns is heart wrenching. >> it many heart wrenching and the attorney general of the united states says i'm sorry i didn't know, therefore i'm not responsible. his inaction and lack of knowledge shows a fundamental flaw within the department of justice structure under eric holder. it's malfeasance. it's gross negligence and resulted in the death of our border patrol sergeant and 16 mexican young men that were killed in juarez at the hands our own weapons, weapons we lost track of in this failed and botched gun running move.

this attempt to level this action at the feet of president george w. bush, this shows the fallacy of that argument. operation wide receiver which was a bush program was in conjunction with the mexican government. here we allowed guns to walk to drug cartels. they were turned on the mexican citizens and we never bothered to tell mexico what was going on. you can fire a deputy attorney general and remove the head of the atf. but ultimately who is responsible is the attorney general of the united states. congress ryan, mitt romney, and congress is correct it's time for eric holder to go. there is only five weeks between thousand and the election. there is political consequences and there is real consequences here. even the inspector general's report did not absolve eric holder as he claims it did. he still should have known what was going on with such a massive

operation. martha: it did show he didn't know. you are saying that isn't enough. i get that. but there is no indication that the administration has any intention of changing their attorney general, jay. >> that right. i think that's the political reality of the situation. that's why congressman issa has moved for contempt proceedings against attorney general holder. politically the president of the youth is not going to want to make a move at the department of justice which will look like a sign of weakness. we have a dead border patrol agent at the hands our own weapons. we have 16 mexican teenagers killed at hands our weapons in mexico with no knowledge of the mexican government what was going on here and it's tang an investigative report by univision to get to the truth here. 57 is the latest report guns were utilizing that resulted in deaths of mexican citizens in

addition to the situation with brian terry. politically the president doesn't want to make the bold and decisive move of removing the attorney general. but look at the consequences of this inaction. he's the chief law enforcement officer of the united states. he's the attorney general of the united states and he's saying hear no evil, see no evil, i'm not responsible and that's not the way the department of justice that it worked with is supposed to work. martha: what if he were to take more shot in the this situation. to say i didn't know but i should have known. and this did happen on my watch. and that was a grievous error. >> a grievous error. when you are the chief law enforcement officer of the united states and the chief lawyer for the united states. the responsibility is as he had with some of his deputies to step aside. there is no good explanation for the attorney general. this idea he did not know. it was going on in my department and i didn't know about it.

this ended up being a massive operation. the attorney general's defense is i don't know? sorry, that not way it's supposed to work. bill: 22 minutes before the hour. growing calls for the u.s. ambassador susan rice to step aside after a tidal wave of criticism on her reaction to the attacks in benghazi. does that problem stop there or does it go beyond the u.n. ambassador. harris: get your popcorn ready. president obama trying to lower e -- tryingto lower ex peck taia way some pundit.are calling comical. >> i know what it means to be poor and i know what it means to see people who are unemployed. are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement or annuity over 10 or even 20 years?

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martha: members of a russian punk rock group will have to wait for their appeal. one of the members of the group fired her lawyer. both the prime minister and the russian orthodox church are calling for their release at this point.

bill: there are new calls for u.n. ambassador susan rice to resign. congressman peter king, chairman of the homeland security committee wants the ambassador to step down. other top republicans saying rice is part of the problem. >> peter king has called for ambassador rice to resign. do you agree? >> i think she is the messenger. for her to come out and say what she said obviously was total ignorance of the facts. bill: he said messenger. what do you think is the proper course of action now? >> i think that susan vice needs to step down. one of two things occurred. either she saw the intelligence and decided she was going to nuance or tweak and say what she said, calling it a response to the video, or she was told by

those above her to go out and say that this was a response to the video. and, bill, eli lake just posted an article on "daily beast" which shows how they cherry picked some information or alludes to their cherry picking' information. bill: you believe she should resign. >> yes, i do. she should resign. whether she was the messenger or chose to change what they knew to be the truth, we need to get to the bottom of this. it's why congress needs to begin some investigation. and look at the communiques that came from ambassador stevens. look what wa -- what was transpiring in libya. we have to realize this is a terrorist attack. this an act of war.

this is not something that was carried out by some video watching benghazi-based community organizer that said let's bow flash mob the consulate in benghazi. this was a terrorist attack. bill: do you think it stops with susan rice? or does it go to the secretary of state hillary clinton or beyond that? >> this is why we need an independent council and we need the investigations to begin immediately. i think this is an issue -- benghazi-gate is the right term for this. this is very, very serious. probably more serious than watergate. and to call this a response to a video when it was obviously a terrorist attack -- and when you read some of the documentation on this, and you know that there has been other sites and

locations that have bind attack in libya, when you know that the libyan government felt there was something getting ready to transpire. when you know a get know detainee was released to moammar qaddafi and, when you know these things, and yet you do not look at this as a terrorist action, but say the what you a response -- i just think is is -- it plays up the lack of trust. the american people are upset with it. i talked to so many women who have said, really? could they not figure out this was a terrorist attack? are they really -- bill: why do you believe they took the approach they did? >> i do not know. you know, one would think from looking at what we know, one

would be led to consider did they do this. or some type of political gain. were they trying not to say -- was it why the president went to the u.n. and did not use the word "terrorist"? we had a consulate that was attacked. this apprs to have been a terrorist-involved attack from all the indications that we have. i think this an incredibly serious situation. i think it's imperative for the administration to begin to response to the questions that house republicans are asking and you have our chairman, the and services committee and the appropriations committee and the homeland security committee all who have written more than a week ago and yet have not gotten responses from the administration. i think the letters that senator corker and senator lieberman.

senator isaacen * sent. we want to get to the bottom of this because it's incredibly serious to our national security. bill: understood. i want to get to one more thing. peter king said what you said as well. it was either intentional or unintentional misleading. then david akle rod and david plouffe * contradicted each other. john kerry says he's deeply disturbed because you are putting politic ahead of fact finding on a national security matter. >> i find that unfortunate. what we want to do is get to the bottom what happened. we have spent 11 years and we have been fighting al qaeda in what we see now is rather --

when you say okay, things are under control in iraq, they are under control in afghanistan. but they metastasized in north africa. bill: we'll hear a lot of this in the debates, too. to our viewers at home. if you have questions, hemmer@foxnews.com is the e-mail. lines are open right now. 11 minutes before the hour. martha: one high school teacher is facing serious charges after allegedly trying to hire a hitman to kill a former colleague and it was all caught on tape. bill: a stunning win at the ryder cup. europe did the impossible which is what we did to europe 15 years ago. a series of missteps by team

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bill: the supremes getting down to business. the court has a few matters it could hear that would lead to major rulings. these cases include affirmative action, gay marriage and voting rights. martha: a shocking murder for hire scale is unfolding at one florida high school. a teacher accused of hiring a hitman to kill a former

colleague. jamie, how did the police crack this case? >> reporter: 55-year-old teacher allegedly targeted another teacher. authorities say he tried to hire his friend to kill him. that friend took the threat so seriously that he called the fed and in a sting operation he put pepe in contact with a former cop. a florida judge heard pepe tell his friend we wanted. >> how do you want meredith killed?

martha: pepe was arrested last week and his intended target robert meredith was so fearful for his life after hearing of the threat he took a job at another high school. he's still very, very concerned. what happens next? >> reporter: the judge refused to let pepe post bail. he said he remains a threat not only to meredith but society in general. >> there is an ipped case the defendant would commit the act at a school event, a teacher meeting of some sort. because of that it is the state's belief that the defendant should be held in a no-bond stat to us insure the safety of the victim and society as large. >> reporter: students are shook up. he was a popular teacher. attorneys for pepe aren't

commenting. but they will argue the playing of that tape in open court rather than chambers overly prejudiced his defense. eventually he will have to find an impartial jury. martha: jamie, thank you very much. jamie colby. bill: president obama playing the expectations game for wednesday night. chris christie is not pulling punches. why the new jersey governor predicts the race will start anew thursday morning. martha: the mother of one of the former navy seals killed in the benghazi consulate attack is demanding answers why the fbi has not started an investigation in benghazi. sent me a tweet @marthamccallum

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that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. call today to request a free decision guide. with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that

accepts medicare patients... plus, there are no networks, and you'll never need a referral to see a specialist. join the millions who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp... and provided by unitedhealthcare insurance company, which has over 30 years of experience behind it. with all the good years ahead, look for the experience and commitment to go the distance with you. call now to request your free decision guide. martha: here we go, folks, the countdown is on for the first presidential debate. this wednesday night the candidates are scheduled to face off if denver starting at 9:00 eastern time. hoping they can gain momentum and change the game a little bit while we are five weeks away from the big day. president obama is down-playing expectations big time. new jersey governor chris

christie is predicting that that night will turn the election on its head. >> you saw the change this those polls happen very quickly and i'm here to tell you this morning it can happen very quickly back the other way, and i think the beginning of that is wednesday night. come thursday morning the entire narrative of this race is going to change. martha: no sub subtlety in new jersey. welcome t i'm martha maccallum. bill: i'm bill hemmer. bill: governor romney is going to practice in massachusetts before heading to cal. bold words from governor christie, are they shared by the candidate himself, john? >> reporter: not exactly bill. i don't quite know how to put it except that chris christie has never been known as a guy who likes to color inside the

lines. you're supposed to raise expectations for your opponent while lore errin lowering them for your candidate. they say chris christie, is chris christie. the romney campaign is hoping to wake up on thursday morning and see the race substantially changed when you look at the way the polls are going they can't afford to slide back much further than they are. they need a game changer. in terms of raising expectations for themselves that is not what they are doing, dutifully staying inside the lines yesterday governor romney's running mate paul ryan lowered expectations for his client. >> i don't think one event is going to make or make this campaign. president obama is a very gifted speaker. the man has been on the national stage for many years, he's an experienced debater. he's done these kind tkaoe kind

of events very time. this is mitt raps firs's first time on the stage. >> he's done 23 of these but in a multiple setting. this is the first time he's ever engaged in a one-on-one presidential debate. bill: how are they playing the expectations team, president obama's team? >> they were in nevada, they are tog much th doing much the same thing. they set up a debate camp at the west lynn lake lain lake las vegas resort. even though he was thought to win all three debates back in 2008 he was playing down expeck i stations for himself yesterday. >> i know folks in the media are speculating already on who is going to have the best zingers [you are ] >> i don't know about that, who is going to put the most points

on the board. [you are ] >> no, no, governor romney he's a good debater. i'm just okay. >> reporter: i'm just okay i think a lot of people would say he's a little better than just okay. do the debates really matter? sometimes they do, 1960 they established john kenny as a bonafide candidate. we remember the reagan debates and the zinger lines he had. what happened with gerald ford, and al gore losing a lot of points to george bush in 2000. we could safely say again, bill in the overall these debates don't seem to move things all that much. >> it's must-see tv for all of us, we'll be there. john roberts out there in denver. martha: joining me now is a man who has observed many debates over his career. brit hume. good morning. >> reporter: good morning, martha. >> when you see president obama

sa have that awe schukes moment -- >> they always play down themselves as a debater, we see it all the time. it's tiresome, predictable and meaningless. martha: what do you think of mitt romney with regard to the debates, how ready do you think he is? >> he raised his game as a debater between 2008 and 2012. he was pretty effective in the debates this year. he kept his cool, his composure, he kept that sort of smile on his face and remained at least visibly unrattled by whatever happened, and when he had to do it and go on the attack he did it and we all remember the debate i guess it was in florida

with newt gingrich where he basically took gingrich's pants off on the issue of what was in his investment portfolio and won that state by a big margin. this is obviously tk- different. it's a national audience, not a republican audience, he has to win people over. it's a different kind of challenge over a sitting president who is pretty smooth performer. what john roberts said is right, debates sometimes make a difference but not very often. normally what happened in debates people for you going in are still for you coming out and not a lot of minds get chained. chris christie saying it could change everything, it could happen but not very much. martha: if somebody loses their pants it might be a game changer. we'll be watch that very closely. >> that depends, martha entirely on the design of the electri

lecterns. >> we'll wait for the town hall format and hope for that perhaps. you just mentioned chris christie, what do you think he is up to by that comment? >> i have no idea and i'm sure the romney headquarters in boston, they are scratching their heads up there about that. you don't want to raise expectations, you just don't. i think he may have been trying to send a signal in his blunt way to the tphraoep romney camp saying you better do something up there, it looks a little grim for governor romney at the moment. you normally would think that something would have to happen to change the trajectory of the race, so far it hasn't. >> a lot of talk about this is a carter-reagan election or whether mitt romney is a doyle character in history, any thoughts on, you know, what we can learn from those elections, and what we are in right now? >> by the time we got to the

critical, single debate between president carter and governor reagan in 1980 the polls were tight, carter was ahead, reagan had been ahead after his convention in july. there was -- i'm not sure how clear a sense there was, there was some sense in the country that the nation was ready to make a change and wanted to make a change and people were apprehensive about this man reagan, the former actor, the one-time governor of california. they weren't too sure about him and his performance in the debate was very reassuring and the polls turned off that and he won going away. four years later reagan was way ahead and he clearly lost the first debate to walter mondale. i was covering mondale. i remember it. there was a sense of momentum about it that occurred and you thought that mondale might get some purchase in the race. i don't think he ever was going to and reagan kind of blew it all away in the second debate with the funny line of i'm not

going to let my opponent's youth and experience be an issue in this election, because mondale was no spring chicken, he wasn't as old as reagan. i saw mondale was laughing, i knew he was laughing on the outside and crying on the inside. the question really is whether the country is sort of poised on the edge of being ready to make a change and unsure about romney, and whether romney can just present himself as a viable alternative and that will do it. i thought he presented himself at a reasonable alternative at his convention and it didn't do it. it would seem on the surface that he needs to do more than that and we'll see if he can. martha: thank you so much. always good to see you, brit hume in washington. make sure that you watch fox news channel of course does that even need to be said wednesday night. 8:55 is when we'll kickoff. we'll have the pull debate with megyn kelly, brit hume, bret

baier. it kicks off at wednesday night and bill and i will kick around the half math in the morning. bill: if there are pants on the ground that will give us something about both then. early voting kicking off in idaho and south dakota. officials in maryland asked to send in their ballots well before election days. they are worried about increasingly long lines at the polls saying that several issues up for a referendum may add to the surge of voters for the presidential race. martha: how about this. some brand-new medicare penalties p tak take effect today for u.s. hospitals who re-admit too many complications after they were discharged. 2200 facilities are expected to be affected like this with penalties averaging a hundred

and $25,000 per facility this coming year. 12% of medicare beneficiaries who are hospitalized are later readmitted for problems that could have been prevented and those institutions will be penalized for that under the new law. bill: parts ever the southeast under a severe tornado threat pwhrout on my powerful storms rolling through parts of alabama, georgia and the florida panhandle. maria mow lean ace live in the extreme weather center. what is going on out there. >> reporter: good morning, everyone. we are tracking an area of low pressure that will be bringing in heavy rain and the possibility of severe weather across portions of the south. this is the same storm system that produce aide loft flooding across parts of texas, louisiana over the weekend dumping more than 7 or 8 inches of rain in some areas. expecting a lot of heavy rain from the storm system and already saw that across portions of the south. it should weaken a little bit as far as the heavy rain goes over the next 24 hours. we are seeing it occur across

parts of kentucky, eastern portions of tennessee, parts of the carolinas, eastern alabama and georgia not looking at severe weather at the moment, no warns in effect either tornado or severe thunderstorm warnings. we are expecting that to tur later on today as we get sunshine and warm temperatures to fire up the thunderstorms. main concern today will be damage wind gusts and even some isolated tornadoes will be possible from parts of southern tennessee into the florida panhandle. rainfall accumulation we are talking about some spots possibly picking up a little more than 2 inches. bill: oh, my, don't want to start the week that way. keep everybody safe out there. republicans charge that leading members of the president's team yet again offer a confusing picture on libya just yesterday. there are new calls for susan rice to resign immediately, plenty to discuss and we will. michael hayden is here to talk about all of that-with us. martha: the mother of one of the former navy seals who lost his life in that attack now is

demanding answers about what happened to her son. why tyrone woods' mom says the lack of information they are getting is unacceptable. >> more trouble for lindsay lohan the alleged attack that took place inside of a new york city hotel room. and what she says happened behind closed doors.

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>>a minute, mom! let's broaden the world's energy mix. let's go. bill: a new round of fighting raging in syria's largest city. have a look here.

that is amateur video from the town of aleppo showing that syrian rebels fire back at government forces trying to take control of the city. this fierce fighting sparking a fire at the ancient market, the narrow alley of shops was once a bustling tourist attraction. now the market is the scene of a daily battle between rebels and government forces. look at that. martha: the mother of a former navy seal killed in the u.s. consulate attack is speaking out about the slow pace of this investigation into the deaths of her son, tie ron woods, an tyron woods and three other americans september 11th. she mosted on her facebook page. i don't want to ever politicize the loss of my son in libya. it's been 16 days and the f.b.i. has yet to get to benghazi to begin hreur investigation. apparently they have made it to

tripoli but have not been able to get to benghazi. meanwhile the out pose are tyrone and former seal glen doherty died was not and is not secured. absolutely unacceptable. martha: what do you think is going on? why is there no f.b.i. investigation? >> as to why i don't know. my take is that when something of this magnitude happens rule number woeupbs you have t one is you have to secure the crime scene. the longer a time that transpaoeurs between when itran spires and you begin your investigation the less actionable what you get from the seen is. it's been going on almost three

weeks now and my feelings absolutely echo hers. it is unacceptable and it needs to be taken care of immediately. if it was me -- martha: do you buy the reasoning that seems to be what the case is, is that they feel it's not safe for the f.b.i. to go in there to start that investigation? >> i mean, i would agree that it's an a austere environment and it's not safe. my answer to that is you do what you have to to make sure that it is safe so you can conduct your investigation. you ask your guys on the ground what is needed to secure that area and you do it immediately. to me there is no other acceptable course of action regarding it. martha: what do you think -- the more you learn about the details of that night, and that your two former colleagues were half a mile away in another location, and that this action apparently moved from the consulate where ambassador stevens was to the

area half a mile away where they were and they got drawn into this. what does that tell you from your experience? >> from an operative's perspective it absolutely tells me there was a number of individuals utilized in the attack, without question, in my opinion, it was preplanned and it needs to be coordinated at a petty high level. so it's not something that is easy to pull off based on the fact that there was multiple locations, good distances apart, for sure that they had pretty reliable intelligence on what was going on, where guys were, what the movements were, you know, what type of security was involved, and so in my opinion that's pretty alarming that they were able to pull it off in the fashion that they did, and i think it speaks volumes to what is needed in that area to maintain security for u.s. personnel. martha: what do you think about what you've heard out of the

state department and out of the u.n., susan rice? >> for me it's troubling to know that within a presidential administration that there is that big of miscommunication. that would prove problematic at a management team of a burger king restaurant. when you're talking about this level of responsibility it's catastrophic, and, you know, i've heard several quotes about things have unraveled at a fast pace and multiple excuses and the bottom line is that the people that are in those positions are being paid to make very good decisions under extreme duress, and if they are not able to do so, then it's time to put somebody else in those positions. martha: mike, thank you. good to talk to you. we'll stay on top of this story and we'll bring you back if there are more developments

here. many thanks. >> always a pleasure. bill: a lot of sympathy for those friends and families for what they lost there. as the questions continue on what exactly happened on that terrible night in libya, we'll talk with michael hayden, live, on the challenges of getting our agents to the crime scene and what may have been a botched deal from the very beginning. martha: plus a $15 million highway project is put on hold thanks to a single spiderment. bill: a special spider. martha: very. jack, you're a little boring.

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[ crowd cheering, mouse clicks ]

martha: we are back and it's about 24 minutes past the hour. a tourist bus in china crashes into a truck and burst into flames killing at least five german tourists and the driver. investigators say that the bad

roads may be to blame there. and iran restores access to a popular email service, gmail. authorities say they blocked the site to head off protests sparked by an anti-islamic film from the west. >> a freeway opens earlier than schedule, that doesn't happen very often. , karpl tkpwe >> a tiny spider who hasn't been seen in 30 years was spotted on a highway project, now construction is on hold. what is so special about this spider, casey stegall. >> scientists thought this thing

was extinct. they hadn't seen it in 30 years. it's the size of a dime, has no eyes and lives underground. take a look at the little thing that's caused so trouble. it turned up in a six foot hole that was exposed while construction crews were building this new highway under pass. when it was identified in a lab the project was put on hold indefinitely. why you ask all of this over a spider? >> every animal has a place somewhere in the ecosystem and there is no telling about this spider if it's a food source for something that is important, so we may not think it has anything to do with us but we don't know that. >> who knows experts say this creature could one day maybe hold the secrets of curing something like cancer which is judge they stress the importance of protecting endangered species, bill, even spiders. bill: i imagine the folks around there can't be happy with the delays.

>> that is an understatement, they are furious. this is on the western side of san antonio section as near seaworld. thousands and thousands of cars funnel through that area every single day and that rile was supposed to be aeu leave kwraeutealleviated by this under pass. construction was to begin in april and be opened by next summer until this hiccup. >> i would have probably stepped on it. it's been missing 30 years, so what is the difference? it's a spider. >> u.s. fish and wildlife and the federal highway administration involved, reee value waiting its plans and that could mean having to modify, or get this. bill, even scrapping this project all together. bill: holy cow. sounds like charlotte's webb. >> charlotte's webb maybe. bill: thank you, casey. see you later. martha: i like the name, the

braken bath cave mesh weaver. bill: it sounds fierce until you see the picture. martha: it has no eyes. we will find out. you know there are conflicting stories about what happened the notice that four americans were murdered as our consulate in libya. coming up we will speak to the former director of the c.i.a., michael made den on his thoughts on this. what he thinks happened, why the agencies personnel have now been evacuated from the scene. bill: all great questions. also a deadly firefight in afghanistan has the insider attacks surge yet again. oliver north is live in the area and will join us to talk about that live in minutes. @

bill: 10:30 here in new york. there are new questions on this monday morning about the investigation about the attack in our consulate in libya. three weeks after four americans were killed f.b.i. agents in charge ever that case have yet to access the site or even secure the crime scene.

some u.s. lawmakers suggesting the entire investigation was botched from the beginning. >> it was either willful ignorance or a business malintelligence to think that people come to span taeupb just demonstrations with heavy weapons, mortars and the attack goes on for hours. >> senator mccain had a lot to say in that interview. michael hayden is with me, former director of the c.i.a. willful ignorance. dismal intelligence, is senator mccain onto something there. >> i know how hard intelligence is. i can understand why the senator is a bit puzzles. the elements he suggested, complex attack, heavy records, indirect fire, sequential attacks against two installations my default option would not have been that this was the out coming of a spontaneous demonstration. bill: what would it have been? >> my instinct, given that it

happened in benghazi where we new the libyan islamic fighting group was very strong, that it happened on september 11th, that the attack appeared to have been as well coordinated and as complex as it was, my initial instinct was probably along the lines that this could not have been spontaneous, it was probably preplanned. how deep the planning went, what the chain of command was, how high up in this al-qaida affiliate approval went, those are all things to be discovered. it just looked too well done to have been spontaneous. bill: why then blame it on this film repeatedly for days? >> i don't know. but you do know, bill, that the intelligence community changed its view as they put out in their press release last friday, as more information came in, they became more certain that this was indeed a planned attack. what i'm kupl jus curious about is what is the timeline.

you begin with hypothesize, i want to know when the preplanned hypothesis ovetake the spontaneous hypothesis and the intelligence community bee gone to think that this was not a product of the demonstration tph-s cairo. bill: what would that tell you then? >> the announcement last friday simply said their ideas developed. there is no sense of a timeline there. frankly when you put a document like this out in the public domain, even though you may think it's a professional document, it has tremendous political impact, and so a very legitimate question now in the american political process to the d. n. i. since they've willingly entered this public dispute is when did you change your mind. bill: this is shaun turner, the spokesman for the director of national intelligence james clapper. this is part of the statements to which you're referring later on friday when it came out.

in the immediate aftermath there was information that led us to assess that the attack began spontaneously following protests earlier that day at our embassy in kaj re. we provided that assessment to executive officials and members of congress ain't goes on from there. that now is the storyline from there. from that you say what? >> well, look, as i said, intelligence is hard, you don't always get it right, clearly spontaneous was incorrect. i'm not sure, i'm not privy to the information on which they would base the judgment that it was spontaneous, but these are good people, they are all friends of mine. i give them the benefit of the doubt, they thought that. but then how quickly did their views change based upon the gathering of additional information? that's really the critical question. bill: just yesterday, david axle sod and david ploott contradicted each other. >> that is the it the issue. you have the professionals of

the american intelligence community by issuing this press release ending up in the middle of a very hotly debated political flight. that whole movement of stepping out and going public is frankly puzzling to folks like me. i'm not quite sure why they did that. bill: i want to get to two more items here, "l.a. times" reporting today c.i.a. officers active officers now, names not released, they are quoted talking about the withdrawal from benghazi as disgraceful and overly cautious. is it? >> well, again, i have not heard that, i'm not privy to any inside information, but in general, bill i have a pretty good sense how beauracracies, particularly the american government beauracracy works. we were probably too incautious before the attack and we are probably overly cautious now. i've seen that happen in other circumstances. bill: marsha blackburn was on

her a house republican calling for susan rice to step down, and perhaps more after that she is suggesting. she referenced this on daily beast about cherry picking information where you will use certain information to fit your story. does that sound plausible sneer. >> sure it's plausible. look, i'm not in a position to judge our ambassador to the united nations. two things really important, where was the intelligence committee's thinking on that sunday morning, and secondly were her talking points which appeared to be consistent over five different talk shows, were her talking points cleared by the american intelligence committee. just as a matter of caution, inside the beauracracy that is a wise thing to do so you don't end up trying to defend a position that frankly ends up being indefensible. bill: thank you for your time we really appreciate your incite on this. we'll call on you again as we work through this story. michael hayden former director of the c.i.a. with us today out of washington.

martha: important issues there and here as well of the insider attacks that have the top commander in afghanistan quote, mad as hell. we'll talk about that. bill: what can be done to keep our soldiers and marines safe from the people they are training? that is on going. martha: a car thief leading the police on a high-speed chase through los angeles. did you see this? the dramatic way that it ended. we'll be right back. wow. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? be happy. be healthy.

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bill: this morning a grim milestone to be marked for u.s. forces in afghanistan after a weekend, a firefight and suicide blasts pushed the death toll for american civilians and military personnel over the 2,000 mark, and kill a total of at least 16 people over the course of 48 hours. in a moment we'll get live to colonel oliver north with some folks who have sacrificed in that war in afghanistan and hear his observations about how things are going there. if you listen to a lot of folks talk it has taken a turn there. martha: we are working on that, we'll get that up as soon as we can. in the meantime the top u.s. commander in afghanistan is now saying that he is outraged by the rise in attacks on u.s. service members by their afghan allies in america's longest war. here is u.s. general john allen. >> can you explain why the sudden increase in these attacks? >> well, i'm mad as hell about

them to be honest with you. we are going to get after this. it reverb pwraeuts everywhere across the united states. we are willing to sacrifice a lot for this campaign but we are not willing to be murdered for it. martha: very strong words from allen over the weekend. attacks by afghan soldiers or in sur gents potentially disguised in their uniforms have killed 51 american and nato troops this year alone in these so-called green on blue attacks that are becoming increasingly horrific and so troublesome to pherps. i'l americans. i'm joined by marvin calb, he is a fox news contributor. always good to have you with us. very strong words as i said from general allen. what do you make of this story? >> well, one of the things that emerges out of that 60 minute report is that we have been told for months now that the war against al-qaida is pretty well over in afghanistan.

now we're told that al-qaida is coming back into afghanistan, and they are the ones who are teaching the taliban how to do these inside jobs, and that that represents a new strategy for the taliban and it clearly is very effective. it is infuriating general allen because at the moment we don't quite know how to handle it. there is no clear way of getting at the taliban. and from the very beginning there have been three issues here, one, can you hold off the sanctuary problem in pakistan, can you deal with the military problem, can you do anything about corruption in the government in kabul -rblg, and we haven't managed that as of yet. martha: obviously we've had so much treasure lost in afghanistan and so many people have dedicated so many time and energy and not to mention the money that has gone into this effort. the critics of this administration would say that as soon as we signaled that we were

going to pull out of there in 2014 basically all hell broke loose. >> well i'm not sure that that follows exactly. how long hell was going to probably break loose as soon as the taliban had the operation intact and got the taliban people to come back in. you're not dealing with a manner of tactics here, you're dealing with a long-range effort on the part ever the people who live there to take volume of their government, and if the government ends up being as corrupt as it is, if you still cannot stop people from coming in from outside, if you still do not have control over the military aspects with these insider attacks, which are quite awful, then you are facing a very serious problem. martha: but this raises a question, excuse me for jumping in, of leadership. because, if that is the case, if our people have in some of these

cases have become sitting ducks do we leave them there until 2014 or give them the support that they need. when the president talks about mostly when he talks about afghanistan is that he has come up with a lan to leave their responsibly. i'm not sure what that means given the scenario we are seeing right now. should we stay there at all through 2014 if x are in a very vulnerable position that is created by saying when we're going to loaf. >> trying to leave responsibly in the president's mind means is we train the afghans to take over before we pull out. the problem is twice in the last couple of months we've had to suspend programs for traeupblg the afghans. training the afghans. now we have resumed those programs, but at the same time the taliban is street end now by the presence of al-qaida once again, a taliban official telling laura logan that the al-qaida people now train them to do these insider attacks.

the question then comes, do you walk away from afghanistan after 11 years of effort or do you try to stay there, will the american people tolerate that? will even a president romney tolerate that? it's an extraordinarily difficult issue. martha: it is. thank you very much. marvin kalb joining us. bill: korpb h colonel oliver north is streaming live. we join him to see what he is learning on the ground there. >> i happen to be at an afghan local police outpost at the edge of country with u.s. operatives who are here to train, mentor and partner with them. standing next to me is a special operations chief who yesterday

in an engagement with the alp taken the fight to the enemy was shot by one of the even knee, not the nlp. this was not a green on blue. show him what i have in your hand. >> this was the armor plate i was playing at the time. one ground, lucky shot. the fact of the matter is that the alp were the first individuals to quickly respond and put round down range in order to affect movement for myself. >> what these guys have done, bill is greg and his teammate and others have been out here training 16,000 afghan local police. the program has not been stopped. we were all over with them literally to the edge of injin country today. this is a program that is working thanks in large part thanks to people like the chief standing right next to me who wanted to say hi to folks at home. >> i wanted to say, hi, gosha, high dylan,. >> this is an outfit that is

take a fight to the enemy and the afghan local police are in the lead. bill. bill: remarkable story there. stay safe there, thank you, co oliver north. how are you doing gregg. >> president obama and mitt romney both playing like it's high school cramming for the first presidential debate. both side acknowledge it could make-or-break the race to the white house. bret baier and larry sabato will be here to weigh in on this. another issue that could influence the election is the white house response to the murder of four u.s. diplomats in libya, what we are learning about it today. is the mainstream media ignoring mitt romney's strength among independent voters, is there by as overall. we'll investigate. bill: he is a tsa screener caught with more than $800,000

worth of other people's stuff. martha: lovely. bill: why he says he's not nearly the only one. martha: that bakes it better makes it better. another day and incident with lindsay lohan that involves police, surprise, surprise, why she said she was assaulted in a hotel room, next. ♪ is there anybody going to listen to my story all about the girl who came to stay. she's the kind of girl you want so much it makes you sorry, still you don't regret a single day. ♪ ♪ how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.

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martha: this will play into your worst fears while traveling. a tsa agent busted for stealing from passengers is now speaking out. the exsecurity officer admitted

that he swiped more than $800,000 report of items from checked bags over a four-year period and was finally busted when he tried to sell a stolen camera on ebay. in an interview with abc news he says he did it because he wasn't getting paid enough and that stealing was, quote, part of the culture, and just not that difficult. >> it was so easy one day i walked out of there with, you know, the video game, the nintendo wii, i walked out of the check-point with a nintendo wii in my hand. >> nobody said anything. >> nobody said a word. >> even though you were mugging all this stuff around. >> i had that and another bag, no questions. no questions at all. martha: appalling. bill: now we know. martha: a poulg. billappalling. bill: he just upped his salary. martha: he said we weren't getting paid enough anyway so we should just steal stuff. bill: more drama for actress

lindsay lohan, she was said to be involved in a heated scuffle inside of a new york city hotel room. i am shocked by this martha. over a series of cellphone photos. richard roth, new york entertainment attorney, defense attorney. good morning. >> good morning. bill: let's set the scene, it's friday/saturday night. she is with a group of friends including a congressional staffer called christian labella. things late in the night go terribly wrong. what was the issue. >> 5:00 in the morning they are back in her suite with a bunch of friends and she finds he has photographs and videos of her during the evening on her phone. she sakes the phone, tries to delete them all. he apparently gets in a skoufl with her. he sayscuffle. she runs out, hits the fire alarm, and lo and behold lindsay lohan has another incident with the police. >> she pauld a shau pulled a

shaun white does she a a medical report. >> there are no strafps. this is an unfortunate incident of lindsay lohan trying to get her out of that huge hole she is in. a week doesn't go by without her being in the press for unfortunate instances. bill: legally speaking what happens here. i'm not an attorney, this is a he said-she said right. >> that's absolutely right. the police don't go forward with the charges, they have two essentially nuisance charges. this is a he said she said. he claims she shouldn't have pushed him, she kaeupls he shouldn't have pushed her. she is supposed to be on her good behavior. lock your door, stay home, don't go out until 5:00 this the morning. bill: i think that's good advice i wish you were her father and in more control. does this play into effect at all. >> if it's found she violated the law back in l.a. she is on

probation, they can make her do another community service. she is really walking on thin ice with every one of these instances. the judge in los angeles may say lindsey get back in here, you have another potential violation. if it's found to be a violation i want you to get back in there and do more community service. she's got to stay out of the lime light right now. bill: or as we like to say just another day. >> just another say. bill: thank you. defense attorney here in new york. martha: she was in parent trap, can we go back to the parent trap days and hit rewind on lindsey. i bet she'd like to do that sometimes too. we are about 48 hours away from the presidential debate of the season, folks, coming up brand-new details on how both of these gentlemen are preparing for the very big night ahead of them. be right back.

martha: u.s. troops are getting superhuman inspiration overseas in the form of their favorite comic books. the deep, a come big store in huntsville, alabama, collecting donations for their fourth, sorry, comics for troops drive. a customer who was deployed overseas asked them to hold onto his subscriptions while he was away. store managers thought, why

stop there? >> they really like the slice of home that it brings them they say. they grew up reading comics. comics tend to have the ability to lift spirits there. they're serving for us. any little bit we could do would be, goes a long way and letting them think about home and, looking forward to coming back. martha: that's great. good for them. previous drives netted up to 20,000 comics much the drive ends this thursday. favorite comic book? bill: superman? only because i dressed like superman every halloween. that is lay-up. martha: mine is archie. absolute favorite comic. bill: "mad" magazine. that is all we've got. got anything else? martha: no, i'm good. bill: "happening now" starts right now. martha: thanks everybody. jenna: thank you, bill and martha, brand new stories and breaking news including this. the faceoff for president obama and governor